Ignition Timing/Advance inquiry

GRWeldon

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Good day. I finally got to the point where I found and fixed all the vacuum leaks on the 96 Bird that I acquired about 3 months ago. It idles well at 800 in park, about 650-700 in drive. The engine seems to run well at all steady RPM, but getting there is a different story. While giving it the gas, it does not smoothly accelerate and it rough. When holding at 3500 or so, it seems to run very smoothly. Drop the RPM to idle and all is as should be. It only runs rough when you push the pedal. I can't really take it out on the road yet because the tires are dry-rotted. I'm hoping to order some as early as tomorrow so then I really be able to see what she does on the road. I've only driven it about 5 miles total since I purchased it. Had to do a bunch of repairs.

I hooked up the scan tool and looked at the live data. At idle, the ignition timing is between 12 and 15 degrees, which seems about normal to me. While holding steady, it is also at 15 degrees. In fact, the timing never goes above 15 degrees, which seems like it's not enough advance. I could be wrong, but that's why I'm asking the question, which is:

What sensors send timing data to the ECM? I'm assuming cam and crank sensors? Is there anything else that might need checking or replacement?

Obviously I need to check the plugs on this car, they might be original. The wires have been replaced, maybe in an effort to fix the problem I'm describing. I'll have to pull the plugs and take a look, maybe that will shed a little light but I won't be able to do that for a couple of days.

I suppose valve timing could be an issue but I don't think it's likely. The car only has 95K miles on it. I suppose the chains/tensioners could be worn or faulty but I'm sure hoping not. I've never done chains on a 4.6 inside the car and it wouldn't be something I'm looking forward to doing.
 
Timing on the scan tool is commanded timing, not observed timing, timing is derived from tables based off load and RPM and modified by air and coolant temperature, so in addition to position sensors the IAT, ECT, MAF all play a role. I’d check the ECT and IAT are normal in the scan tool and maybe give the MAF a cleaning at most. Plugs are most definitely at their end of life if they’re the originals so I’d start with those first.

Don’t worry about valve timing at all.
 
The lack of advance is caused by misfiring plugs or wires most likely. These only last 3 years, so yours are toast. Skip all the fancy plugs, get double platinum, no skinny center electrode. Our ignitions eat those in about 10k miles. :) APP103 or 104, last look at the sticky. There's a list. Verify the gap on all plugs, they do not come gapped, regardless of what people tell you. if it will help, I can write a post on how to gap plugs properly, and use the little tool correctly.
My directions on plugs changed a lot when platinum plugs came out; you didn't have to dress plugs every 10 k miles, and the old instruction of "Steal your mom's diamond nail file", has gone away, lol.
One ofthe cooler things of this platform is the lack of major problems. replace the plugs and wires, and change the coolant every 3 years, change the oil at 3kmi with the air filter, change the trans fluid every 25k, Change the diff fluid every 100k.
First major issue with Lazarus is rod knock, at over 500k miles of hard, high speed driving. I plan to fixit, and drive it another 500k. :)
 
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Thanks for the replies. I have always used double platinum plugs in all my Birds and Cats. I may even have a set on-hand and the intention has always been to replace them when I get down to the smaller items. Just because I've owned many I know it doesn't mean I know all about them but the latest Bird I bought two weeks ago will be my ninth overall and is #4 that I currently own. I DO know quite a bit about them, but I'm the type of person that leaves things be if I don't need to know at the moment. If my #3 car hadn't been running rough last night, I would have never inquired about timing. On a side note, I ordered a set of tires for #3 from tirerack.com this morning and there is a possibility that I'll be driving it sometime next week. Yesterday I replaced all the turn signal/brake bulbs and the turn signals now work. Also found and plugged the last vacuum leak and now it idles correctly.

I'll be picking up #4 hopefully next weekend in Georgia. It's the grand-daughter's birthday party this weekend. It's a silver '94 T-bird with a blown-up V6. I got it for a parts car but it's in as good of shape as the best of what I currently own. The '97 I own is in the roughest shape and might be a 4.6 donor car. I really haven't decided. It's good to have choices.

Thank you all for you replies. I really appreciate the info that you all share!
 
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I dug out the plugs I had on-hand. The are NGK G-power TR55GP. When I bought them I believed them to be double platinum. I have never really inquired about what double platinum actually means. These particular plugs have what I believe is referred to as the "skinny" platinum electrode pictured below. Is it really worth getting a set with "thick" electrodes considering that I bought these plugs well over 5 years ago and I suspect they have at least doubled in price...
 

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I've had bad luck with those; the little platinum "puck" melts off. That's why I get the double platinum with the larger center electrodes. Those worked great when Champion started making them in the 70's for my 2-stroke. Our ignitions have a lot more energy.
 
Well, I put them in yesterday while the intake was off for resealing. The ones I removed were the original Autolite. The only reason I say that is it's a low mileage car (93K maybe...the odometer gear is broken) and every electrical connector that I'm removing, the locking tab is intact. There are also other things that lead me to believe that I'm the second owner and that the first owner did NO maintenance whatsoever!
 
I've had bad luck with those; the little platinum "puck" melts off. That's why I get the double platinum with the larger center electrodes. Those worked great when Champion started making them in the 70's for my 2-stroke. Our ignitions have a lot more energy.
How? I run the fine electrode plugs in my blown 4V with no issues. A-Train even did a write up recommending them for high cylinder pressure situations.
 
Lazarus eats them like candy; several brands, so it's not the brand. the larger ones do fine. I've checked the mix, it's not lean. Even the failed plugs were tan.
 

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