Doomsday Thread Redux

[XR7-4.6]

Its particularly offensive when you call an Indian person that as it basically means "all you brown folk look alike."
Not a great term to use.

If it makes them feel any better they should see who we were calling Indian since 1492!

Not that it makes things any less PC but I don’t think I have ever heard anyone say Paki as a slur or even a descriptor, in fact I’d wager mistakenly calling a Pakistani person Indian is far more common. That or really broadly middle eastern or Muslim. If Paki is a slur it sure is a subtle one, most deliberate slurs for the region are pretty on the nose offensive. Getting irate about paki is like me getting offended by pollak, even though I’m mostly German, and yeah we pretty much look the same lol

 

[dDUBb]

It's a derogatory term used in the UK .. but you have to say it with a Harry Potter accent.

 

[XR7-4.6]

It's a derogatory term used in the UK .. but you have to say it with a Harry Potter accent.

“Oi, I got a Paki in shackles in the boot I do I do. Wait for Nigel to get ‘eer in the lorry and we’ll give ‘em a ripe ol clobbering!”

Well I’ll be damned, spoken in the Queens English it really is derogatory!

 

[Irv]

I read that with an Australian accent like a confused English expat down under.

 

[gunn]

Not a doomsday per se, but interesting that this is the FIRST time parents are being charged related to a mass school shooting by their kid. If these charges stick, perhaps school shootings in the US might get curtailed with actual enforcement (probably not, but we can hope).

I'm a big proponent of legal gun ownerhsip but potentially holding parents accountable for their kids actions is a good start (aka so maybe its not a good idea to give your troubled 15yrold kid a 9mm Sig?)

Michigan school shooter's mother to stand trial for manslaughter in 4 student deaths

The mother of a Michigan school shooter is headed to trial on involuntary manslaughter charges. Jury selection started Tuesday.

apnews.com

 

[XR7-4.6]

Not a doomsday per se, but interesting that this is the FIRST time parents are being charged related to a mass school shooting by their kid. If these charges stick, perhaps school shootings in the US might get curtailed with actual enforcement (probably not, but we can hope).

I'm a big proponent of legal gun ownerhsip but potentially holding parents accountable for their kids actions is a good start (aka so maybe its not a good idea to give your troubled 15yrold kid a 9mm Sig?)

Michigan school shooter's mother to stand trial for manslaughter in 4 student deaths

The mother of a Michigan school shooter is headed to trial on involuntary manslaughter charges. Jury selection started Tuesday.

apnews.com

Anything to incentivize looking out for warning signs, of which there often seems to be. The Highland Park parade shooter comes to mind, who actually threatened to murder is parents and the dad still bought him a gun afterwards

 

[Derphound01]

Not a doomsday per se, but interesting that this is the FIRST time parents are being charged related to a mass school shooting by their kid. If these charges stick, perhaps school shootings in the US might get curtailed with actual enforcement (probably not, but we can hope).

I'm a big proponent of legal gun ownerhsip but potentially holding parents accountable for their kids actions is a good start (aka so maybe its not a good idea to give your troubled 15yrold kid a 9mm Sig?)

I am as pro-2A as it gets and wholly I agree with charges being laid on the parents. To me, it's no different than paying for a busted window when your kid hits a ball through it. You as a parent are responsible for your kids and their actions.

It's even sadder when you read about his upbringing. Kid was frequently left alone while the parents went out boozing. CPS was called numerous times by neighbors but nothing ever happened.

The dumbest part was both the school and the parents allowed the boy to stay at school when he was showing signs of violent behavior on the day of the shooting. The parents were by far the root of his problems, but the inaction by CPS and the school should also land more people in jail.

Oxford school shooter was 'feral child' abandoned by parents, defense psychologist says

A psychologist is testifying in a Michigan court where a judge must decide whether the Oxford school shooter gets life in prison.

apnews.com

 

[gunn]

Anything to incentivize looking out for warning signs, of which there often seems to be. The Highland Park parade shooter comes to mind, who actually threatened to murder is parents and the dad still bought him a gun afterwards

I'm not sure what was the most damning thing about the parents failure to parent:
1) the Oxford shooter (who's momma is on trial) was caugt looking at ammunition on a school computer the day before his crime spree. The mom's text reply "LOL. I'm not mad. You have to learn to not get caught."

Police: Oxford High School shooting suspect looked up ammo in class; mother told him not to get caught

The teenager charged in the Oxford High School shooting was caught by a teacher looking up ammunition during class the day before, and when his mother was told, she texted him not to get caught, according to authorities.

www.clickondetroit.com

2) The parents not picking the kid up as Derphound01 just pointed out:
On the morning of the shooting, he drew a picture of a gun and a bleeding body on his math homework sheet, along with the words, "The thoughts won't stop. Help me." Crumbley and his parents were summoned to the counselor's office, though he was ultimately allowed to return to class. His parents never informed the school they had bought him a gun, and said they had to go back to their jobs.

Oxford school shooter Ethan Crumbley to be sentenced Friday: I'll rot in prison 'like a tomato'

Ethan Crumbley to find out if he'll get life without parole, or a chance at freedom one day.

www.freep.com

 

[gunn]

On a lighter note, Nazis visiting SF this past weekend couldn't seem to figure out turnstiles

https://nitter.net/historyfalls/status/1749499996674629955#m

 

[Trunk Monkey]

On a lighter note, Nazis visiting SF this past weekend couldn't seem to figure out turnstiles

https://nitter.net/historyfalls/status/1749499996674629955#m

I can’t wait to see what you come up with for the 2024 list.

 

[gunn]

I'm dropping this article here because I believe our inability to enforce laws here uniformly across socioeconomic/gender/race will lead to further instability (and doomsday) here in the US: it's an interesting long form journalism article about the unintended consequences of felony murder convictions. I don't give a fuck about criminals, I wouldn't shed a tear for a car burglar if they got crushed stealing a cat, but this article did make me consider whether or not it makes sense to enforce some of the draconian felony murder statutes that exist in various states

Sentenced to Life for an Accident Miles Away

A draconian legal doctrine called felony murder has put thousands of Americans—disproportionately young and Black—in prison.

www.newyorker.com

Highlights:
- Felony murder is the idea that if you committed a felony and a death results from the crime even if you weren't directly involved in the death, you can be charged with felony murder in some states. Some states like FL go further and impose mandatory life sentences w/o parole
- Lead example was a black guy who decided to break into cars with his budy after losing money at a casino in FL. He went with a friend, Stole some baseball equipment, some loose change, and sunglasses from a few different cars. A guy caught him and he was arrested. As his friend who was going with him to commit these crimes passes by in his car, the victim IDs the car and a cop chase ensues. The criminal driver runs over two bicyclists. Noone gives a shit about the driver (he DID cause these deaths). However, the first guy, despite already being arrested and several miles away, gets hit with felony murder charges. He was offered a plea deal in which he'd do <5 years for the auto crimes and they'd drop the felony murder charge but decided to go to trial. By admitting he committed the auto burglaries, he goes away for life b/c of mandatory minimum sentences.
- Apparently its used by DAs in states where the laws have mandatory min sentencing to extract much more significant plea deals. It's an overpowered tool which seems to lead to it being applied when the link between the perp and the killing incident is tenuous.
- Felony murder charges can happen even if its the police who shoot a perp dead. The other guys in the crew can be hit with felony murder charges. I'm less sure about this one.
- Young people tend to get charged more with FM than murder charges... often because they tend to commit crimes in groups.
- People of influence rarely catch these charges: its disproportionately prosecuted on people of color than other races. The racial angle is interesting but I'm not sure how much to read into this statistic as people of different races/socioeconomic levels commit crimes at different rates.
- one example they gave which caught my interest: if trump is convicted of a felony around the Jan 6 insurrection, could felony murder charges be brought on him b/c the storming of the capitol lead directly to a few deaths?

My key takeaway: don't crime, esp if you don't have the complexion for the protection. If you do decide to commit crimes, do it alone. You might show restraint in your getaway but your co-conspirators might not and screw you.

 

[Grog6]

Here we have a felony murder statute; If we are out cruising, and you rob a liquor store while I'm pissing behind the dumpster, I get charged too, and if you kill somebody, I'm down for murder. I knew a total babe that went on a date with a lowlife, she was driving. When he had her stop by a liquor store, he went in and shot the owner, in turn owners wife shows up with a shotgun full of buckshot. Dude died, she got shot in the face, and Went to prison for life. I think she's eligible for parole when she's 5o something. She was like 20. Another guy I knew from a young age was Chuckie. He went to Brushy mountain state penitentiary at 18, under a "Three strikes" Law. He committed 3 burglaries, all felonies. 5 years, no bs,
They stole beer from a distributor,stole a riding lawnmower, and the kicker was the last one. Across the street by his house, there's a weigels convenience store. He sees the krispy creme donut guy loading boxes of donuts into the ice machine about 4am. Goes over when dude leaves, pops his skinny butt down on top of the cooler and pigs out on donuts, then passes out. That's where the cops found him, lol. 5 years for a box of donuts. It boggles the mind.

 

[MadMikeyL]

I think the real problem is not the felony murder statute, but mandatory minimums. One of the main reasons that we have judges is because rarely are circumstances surrounding a crime exactly the same, let alone for every instance of the crime. Having mandatory minimums sounds good to the average joe when a politician sells it as being tough on crime, but what it does is remove any discretion for the judge. The result is situations like the guy going away for life for burglarizing a car, or people going away for life for minor things based on 3 strike laws, or the case a while back where a poorly trained truck driver didn’t know how to go down a mountain, lost control of his truck, and killed a bunch of people, which is horrible and negligent, and without a doubt worthy of jail time, but there was no malicious intent, and the guy got over 100 years because of mandatory sentencing laws, and the judge even said at the time that he felt the sentence was drastically disproportionate from the crime, but his hands were tied due to mandatory minimum laws. (I think his sentence was ultimately reduced by the governor or something, but the mandatory minimum law is still in place, they just overruled it for this one instance.)

As for felony murder itself, it seems to me that the potential for loss of life must be at least a somewhat reasonable expected result from the crime being committed. If you commit armed robbery, and your accomplice shoots the victim, well you should have figured that was a possibility, even if shooting was not part of the plan. Same thing could easily be said of breaking into a home, since there is a good chance a homeowner could be armed and defend themselves. However I find it hard to fathom how breaking into a parked unoccupied vehicle could be expected to result in the death of anyone. In the case you mentioned, it seems to me that the felony that resulted in the death of those cyclists was not the burglary of the cars, but rather eluding an officer, and if the one guy was already in handcuffs in the back of the patrol car when the other guy decided to run, then unless you could prove a prior conspiracy where they both agreed to take the cops on a high speed chase if caught, then I would be hard pressed to convict him of felony murder. This, in my opinion, is where jury nullification comes into play. Every time a judge instructs a jury, they say you are not to apply your opinion about whether the law is unjust, only to find the facts of whether they committed the offense. Fuck that! If you feel a law is unjust, and you participate in locking someone up for it, then you are guilty of kidnapping in my mind. Every juror has the right to employ jury nullification, and in some instances, the moral duty to do so!

 

[XR7-4.6]

My key takeaway: don't crime, esp if you don't have the complexion for the protection. If you do decide to commit crimes, do it alone. You might show restraint in your getaway but your co-conspirators might not and screw you.

Mine too. The answer is to take away preferential treatment based on lawyers they can afford. Actually why am I dancing around the root issue here? Abolish all lawyers!

 

[Grog6]

I know some very good lawyers, but like everything else, some will say or do anything for money. And they tend to play golf/play poker /etc with the judge. If a judge hates a lawyer, he's probably honest, lol.

 

[gunn]

Glad to spark some conversation.

On a different topic though, setting a British oil tanker on fire is certainly an escalation of hostilities.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/01/26/middleeast/oil-tanker-fire-houthi-missile-attack-gulf-aden-intl/index.html

 

[Grog6]

Hey, that reminds me, I heard your name today; they said the money was being recinded to you and jco; it's on my statement. She said some legalese about 90daysfrom .. yada.. Please let me know when that happens. Sorry about all the bs. That stuff is the last thing I have to deal with off of all that crap. I'm going to call all the different police departments and update themtomorrow. I'm still waiting to see them arrest her.

 

[gunn]

No worries. You are good for it.

 

[gunn]

Unlike something like being a selfish driver, I don't think I can draw a direct line between activist main character syndrome and the increase in tribalism in society to the isolation many experienced during the pandemic. I do believe the trend towards people only looking out for themselves versus a greater good is contributing to the stress of our society.

Chuckle fucks like these want to draw attention to society wasting food.. by wasting food. they seem to want attention more than to actually address the issue.

Activists splatter 'Mona Lisa' with soup in Louvre Museum in Paris

The activists were from "Riposte Alimentaire," a food-security group.

abcnews.go.com

To me, this is very similar to those other chuckle fucks who were burning SUVs at car dealership lots to protest the environmental impact of SUVs. I think this happened well before the pandemic so I can't say the pandemic exacerbated this kind of behavior. I still find it disheartening though.

 

[XR7-4.6]

Unlike something like being a selfish driver, I don't think I can draw a direct line between activist main character syndrome and the increase in tribalism in society to the isolation many experienced during the pandemic. I do believe the trend towards people only looking out for themselves versus a greater good is contributing to the stress of our society.

Chuckle fucks like these want to draw attention to society wasting food.. by wasting food. they seem to want attention more than to actually address the issue.

Activists splatter 'Mona Lisa' with soup in Louvre Museum in Paris

The activists were from "Riposte Alimentaire," a food-security group.

abcnews.go.com

To me, this is very similar to those other chuckle fucks who were burning SUVs at car dealership lots to protest the environmental impact of SUVs. I think this happened well before the pandemic so I can't say the pandemic exacerbated this kind of behavior. I still find it disheartening though.

Add creatively bankrupt, even these activists are copying 80s pop culture.

I think after the fall of the Soviet Union western civilization save for a few blips was very stable and safe, and I think from stability created a restlessness in many that led to nonsensical outrage over just about everything they can derive a kernel of offense from. Toss in the overall decline of traditional spiritual beliefs and you have masses of people filling the void with activism, political ideology and following these beliefs with dogmatic adherence that the end justifies the means. Social media became their church. Without the smartphone, Facebook and Twitter we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in.

 

[MadMikeyL]

I think it is the exact opposite is true. The notion of the “greater good” is how a couple low-life vandals like that can justify destroying something that has been revered and respected by human beings of all cultures and backgrounds all over the world for hundreds of years! A self-interested person would never engage in such behavior. But if you convince yourself that it is for some perceived greater good, then you can justify all kinds of horrible behavior. The response to the pandemic was a symptom of that mentality, not the cause. People might get sick and die, so it’s OK to trample the most fundamental of rights of all people because the “greater good” of saving lives. There are some things all these greater goods have in common. They are always some existential threat that can not be accurately perceived, or measured, and can never be fully defeated. Maybe draconian lockdowns saved lives, maybe they didn’t, but the point is and always was that we’ll never know, but what we do know is that they wreaked havoc on social structures, economic structures, mental health, education, childhood obesity, etc, all in the name of a greater good! The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and for some reason, no matter how many times things go sideways, people always manage to fall into the same greater good trap over and over again.

 

[XR7-4.6]

I think it is the exact opposite is true. The notion of the “greater good” is how a couple low-life vandals like that can justify destroying something that has been revered and respected by human beings of all cultures and backgrounds all over the world for hundreds of years! A self-interested person would never engage in such behavior. But if you convince yourself that it is for some perceived greater good, then you can justify all kinds of horrible behavior. The response to the pandemic was a symptom of that mentality, not the cause. People might get sick and die, so it’s OK to trample the most fundamental of rights of all people because the “greater good” of saving lives. There are some things all these greater goods have in common. They are always some existential threat that can not be accurately perceived, or measured, and can never be fully defeated. Maybe draconian lockdowns saved lives, maybe they didn’t, but the point is and always was that we’ll never know, but what we do know is that they wreaked havoc on social structures, economic structures, mental health, education, childhood obesity, etc, all in the name of a greater good! The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and for some reason, no matter how many times things go sideways, people always manage to fall into the same greater good trap over and over again.

Dogma. Look at any atrocity committed in the name of God and it’s the same greater good faith based mindset any vandal activist runs on.

 

[MadMikeyL]

Dogma. Look at any atrocity committed in the name of God and it’s the same greater good faith based mindset any vandal activist runs on.

Yup! Regardless of whether the acts are committed in the name of God or Allah or climate change or covid or democracy or equality, or any other “good”, if the act doesn’t stand on its own as good and moral, then no greater good can change that fact. If you wouldn’t be OK with someone engaging in a particular action for their own personal profit, then morally you must also condemn the same action when taken for the greater good.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Unlike something like being a selfish driver, I don't think I can draw a direct line between activist main character syndrome and the increase in tribalism in society to the isolation many experienced during the pandemic. I do believe the trend towards people only looking out for themselves versus a greater good is contributing to the stress of our society.

Chuckle fucks like these want to draw attention to society wasting food.. by wasting food. they seem to want attention more than to actually address the issue.

Activists splatter 'Mona Lisa' with soup in Louvre Museum in Paris

The activists were from "Riposte Alimentaire," a food-security group.

abcnews.go.com

To me, this is very similar to those other chuckle fucks who were burning SUVs at car dealership lots to protest the environmental impact of SUVs. I think this happened well before the pandemic so I can't say the pandemic exacerbated this kind of behavior. I still find it disheartening though.

You're right. There is no connection. As far as "greater good" yeah, that's how holy wars start. Enforcement on others of a personal truth.

Truths

• Personal Truth: Truths that are held dearly to the individual.
  • Jesus is your savior
  • Muhammad is the final prophet on Earth
  • There IS a Heaven and I’m going to it.
  • The problem here is you can’t convince someone else of your personal truth without some act of persuasion and in the limit – an act of violence. This is where you get holy wars. I have this personal truth and I REQUIRE that you share my personal truth. That’s a recipe for disaster.
  • If you base truth on your own truth; I see what I believe as opposed to I’m trying to believe what I see.
• Political Truth: This is what you believe to be true simple because it’s been repeated so many times. Themes that rise up because they’re easy to say and remember whether or not it has any anchor in reality. In the limit it becomes brainwashing.
• Objective Truth: (True. No matter what.) True whether or not you believe in it. Invocation of the scientific method. Verified by independent sources using the same experiment. We should all be striving to find and be open to the objective truth. The problem lies in personal and political truths blinding individuals to the objective truth.

On Souping the Mona Lisa: Wow, idiots. Smartly there is a plate of glass in front of the painting to protect it so, it's an idiotic, symbolic act.

Well, selfish idiots are everywhere. Always have been, always will be. Their selfish acts are just more quickly and widely disseminated to all by the WWW.

There are Chuckle fucks (great phrase BTW) of all cultures and walks of life.

 

[Grog6]

The world is full of do-gooders that will kill us all, to satisfy their inner desire to prove something stupid to the rest of us.
Some just really want the world to burn, if we don't satisfy their drive to be 'right'.

 

[dDUBb]

Some of the best intentions .. I prefer the touched up versions.

 

[Grog6]

I just can't see destroying antiquities as anything other than being an asshole.

 

[gunn]

You're right. There is no connection. As far as "greater good" yeah, that's how holy wars start. Enforcement on others of a personal truth.

Truths

• Personal Truth: Truths that are held dearly to the individual.
  • Jesus is your savior
  • Muhammad is the final prophet on Earth
  • There IS a Heaven and I’m going to it.
  • The problem here is you can’t convince someone else of your personal truth without some act of persuasion and in the limit – an act of violence. This is where you get holy wars. I have this personal truth and I REQUIRE that you share my personal truth. That’s a recipe for disaster.
  • If you base truth on your own truth; I see what I believe as opposed to I’m trying to believe what I see.
• Political Truth: This is what you believe to be true simple because it’s been repeated so many times. Themes that rise up because they’re easy to say and remember whether or not it has any anchor in reality. In the limit it becomes brainwashing.
• Objective Truth: (True. No matter what.) True whether or not you believe in it. Invocation of the scientific method. Verified by independent sources using the same experiment. We should all be striving to find and be open to the objective truth. The problem lies in personal and political truths blinding individuals to the objective truth.

On Souping the Mona Lisa: Wow, idiots. Smartly there is a plate of glass in front of the painting to protect it so, it's an idiotic, symbolic act.

Well, selfish idiots are everywhere. Always have been, always will be. Their selfish acts are just more quickly and widely disseminated to all by the WWW.

There are Chuckle fucks (great phrase BTW) of all cultures and walks of life.

Personal Truth = Opinion held by an individual
Political Truth = Opinion held by a group

My Personal opinion: Part of the breakdown I think we see politically comes from the "watering down" of common language. If we cannot agree on common terminology (like what is an issurrection), its hard for people with diametrically opposing views of the world to agree on objective truths.

 

[gunn]

I just can't see destroying antiquities as anything other than being an asshole.

I was going to make a joke about some art that deserves to be left in the dustbin of history but I can't think of anything that's made it over 500 years old but I think should still be tossed. I might not find some ancient art very cool, but whatever, its interesting to see in a museum.

Most of the shit I think we should forget about is much newer. Even there, history takes care of itself (if noone values something be it a book, photo, painting, or sculpture) it gets tossed when it passes out of living memory of the initial creator/purchaser. Unless absolutely stunning, the child of the grandkid who inherited a gourd painted by their great grandma for their kid probably has no attachment to the gourd or great grandma.

 

[Grog6]

The biggest problem of today is that so many people are on social media, and the groupthink is controlled by propaganda machines. Look at the rise of the one with all the crimes; groupthink and lies are all that feeds the machine.Religous groups have classically been controlled by strongmen, both internal and external. If you disagree that Jesus is... they have no problem violating all their "commandments".